Vintage Hondas like early GoldWings and CBXs have fairly robust starters. They do have wear issues that can lead to sluggish starting…especially when the engine is very hot. More on that issue later. A weak starter can cause hard starting…even if the bike is perfectly tuned. More on hard starting here.
First, here’s a Diagnostic Tree to help isolate the actual source of the problem. Carefully go through this list when you have “no start” or “sluggish” starter symptoms:
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Start with a known good battery that is fully charged.
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Attach a multi-test meter (0-25 DC volt scale) to the large positive cable at the starter and a good ground, and then press the starter button. This allows you to determine if you are getting proper voltage to the starter. The reading should be 10V+. If you have this proper voltage reading but poor starter performance, then your starter likely needs overhaul or replacement.
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If voltage at the starter is inadequate, check again…this time at the starter cable stud on the starter relay (located on the right side of the battery). Press the starter button. If your voltage reading improves to 10+ volts, this indicates that the starter cable or cable connections are bad.
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If no improvement in voltage is found, move your meter over to the battery cable side of the starter relay. It should now show about 12.5V. Press the starter button. If voltage remains at 12.5V, your relay or its triggering circuits are the prime suspects.
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If meter drops to less than 8-9 volts, then the main battery cables or battery are suspect. Clean and check the main battery cable connections. Often overlooked is the main negative cable which attaches to the frame at the left rear engine hanger. Repeat this test after cleaning the main battery cable connections.
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Next, move the meter to the battery positive terminal and repeat. If battery voltage drops below 8 volts when starting attempt is made, battery is defective (or not fully charged).
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If little or nothing happens, this usually points back to the starter relay. But….
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Have a close look at the main fuse. Try the starter button and check voltage at both ends of the main fuse. If voltage is the same at both ends, then it’s good. A differential indicates excessive resistance at the master fuse…very common if you have the OEM style master fuse.
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Inspect the connectors leading to the starter relay. Are they melted or distorted? Remove, clean and check for corrosion.
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If they look good, then you’ve got two possibilities left…. the relay (again!) or the voltage to the relay that activates it.
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If the starter button is activating the relay and it doesn’t work, then you got a bad relay.
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A crude check of the starter relay: Disconnect all wires to the relay. Temporarily, run positive and negative test jumper wires directly from the battery to the relay. You should get a “click” if it’s good. No “click” equals bad relay. It’s possible to get a “click” with a defective relay, but that’s rather rare.
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Otherwise, the “signal” from the starter button to the relay is compromised. This circuit involves potentially any one (or more) of these suspects and their associated wiring: ignition switch, starter switch, kill switch, neutral switch, neutral diode, main fuse, and clutch override switch.
Starter Replacement vs. Overhaul?
If you determine that your starter is defective, I recommend that you replace the starter with a new starter. Excellent aftermarket starters are available at very reasonable prices. These fit and function as good as OEM at a fraction of the price. These starters can clearly be rebuilt, but the results are often disappointing and the “savings” are not too meaningful if you still have a sluggish starter.
The reason is that there are heavy lateral loads on the plain end bushings. When these get worn, the clearances get “oval.” This allows the starter rotor to move sideways during operation and rub on the stator windings. Heat reduces these clearances and makes the problem worse. Fitting a powerful new battery will often mask the problem, but it will reappear in short order.
A “starter rebuild” to most folks means just replacing the brushes. That’s clearly not the entire answer!
The only good fix is to renew the starter end bush. These are not available from Honda but are 9mm ID by 14mm OD and about 10mm long (on early GoldWing starters). Any good machine shop could easily make one out of Phosphor Bronze in no time.
As the bush is fitted into a blind hole in the end-cap, you may have to employ the “old grease trick” to remove it. This means you find a piece of rod that is the same diameter as the bushing’s ID (9mm) and then fill the bush with grease. Apply the rod to the bush hole and tap it in with a hammer. The bush will magically be driven out by hydraulic action on the rear face.
Another common starter issue is the contact area between the brush holder and starter housing. A steel “L” bracket screwed to plate and housing solves this problem.
This is all actually more trouble than it’s worth. That’s why I recommend a new starter!
Still not convinced on the merits of a new starter? Then consider this:
I have posted the following info in the Tech Forum at www.gl1000.info and am also passing it on to you in case you would like to use any of this information in your starter tech tip:
If any of you have been following Granpah’s starter problems, you may know that he gave me his old starter. I am in the process of rebuilding it just to see what happens. It also so happens that I rebuild aircraft starters and generators for a living so I have a good background for what happens next.I opened it up and found it heavily contaminated with carbon from the brushes.
Because the carbon went all through the starter, I tore it down all the way (way beyond what Honda recommends). I blew out the carbon with air, cleaned all of the parts in a parts washer, and then steam-cleaned them. Once everything was cleaned up, I took a look at the parts for damage assessment.
Due to the design of these starters, a lot of current flows from one part to the next through the case. If you have ever taken a good look at the ignition breaker points contacts, you will notice that with time metal migrates from one contact to the other. This is an ion exchange where the metal moves from one contact to the other via the arc of electricity. Well, the same thing happens in the starter where all of the components meet each other.
There is a lot of pitting of metal on one component and build-up of metal on the mating component. This buildup also gets contaminated. Due to this metal transfer and contamination, the starter uses increasingly greater amounts of current as the buildup increases. This increased current use also caused the solder joints in the field windings to overheat and unsolder themselves. All of this having been said, there is a great deal more damage to an older starter than just worn brushes!
I am continuing to rework this starter because I have the tools, facilities, and skills to do so but I will only keep this starter around as a spare for short-term use. If I ever have a starter fail, I will install this one only temporarily if necessary while I purchase a new one.
Andy Falenski – Elizabeth City, NC
Starter Remove/Install Tips (all early GoldWings)
Starter replacement is well covered in all workshop manuals. I advise that you review that material.
Here are some tips:
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Place bike on side stand and leave it there throughout this process until the new starter is installed. This is merely to make alignment easier when you install the new starter. There is NO DANGER of disengaging or losing the starter chain inside the engine cases. That’s an old wive’s tale and a myth. The internal architecture of the structures surrounding the chain insiude the engine positively capture the chain in the correct place. that is covered in the video included here.
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Note: draining the oil from the crankcase is not necessary even though that advice is often published elsewhere. That advice originates from chronically overfilled crankcases. If oil gushes out when you pull the starter, you know you are running with too much oil!
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may be possible to remove the starter without disturbing the exhaust, but I’ve never found it worth the hassle of all that wiggling in close quarters. Note: This advice is contrary to some manuals which advise splitting the muffler from the headers. I think that’s bad advice given the age and rarity of these mufflers.
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Remove the gear shift lever.
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Remove the rearmost exhaust stud on the left cylinder head using a stud remover tool or double-nut method.
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Remove the positive starter cable being careful not to allow the terminal stud to rotate.
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Remove the starter attach bolts. The starter will slide out to the front. The splined starter sprocket will remain inside the engine case with its drive chain engaged. Don’t disturb the drive chain or sprocket!
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Lubricate the new starter’s o-ring and splined shaft. Carefully slide the starter into position. You may need to rotate the shaft a bit to get the splined sprocket to line up. Don’t force the action! It should slide easily into position.
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Reattach all components in reverse order.
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Be sure to use new copper gaskets where the headers attach to the cylinder head.
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Be very careful when attaching the positive cable at the new starter. Do not allow the stud to rotate or you may ruin your new starter!
Engagement / Release Issues with Starter Clutch
Finally, a common complaint is poor engagement or disengagement of the starter clutch. Sometimes folks report poor disengagement as a growling” noise. Starter clutch replacement is a major task involving engine removal and is covered here.
Fortunately, this drastic measure is rarely necessary. Usually, a simple build-up of varnish on the starter rollers is the culprit. This is fairly easy to fix:
Drain 1 quart of motor oil from crankcase and add 1 quart of Marvel Mystery Oil. Run this mixture for 300 easy miles, then drain and replace with proper, high quality motor oil. Be sure to replace the oil filter as well. Important: don’t over-rev or strain your engine during the 300 miles. MMO is considerably thinner than regular motor oil and internal engine damage could occur if you are careless.
Special thanks to Geoff Rowlands, Norm Keller and Andy Falenski for assistance on this Tech Tip!
Hi, I’m Francisco and I’m following you from Spain because I have a gl1000 from 1977, I have a friend who also has a GL 1000 from 1978 and the engine starts fine when cold I but when it’s hot engine won’t start, we ‘ be tried cranking my engine and it won’t start when hot either it seems that there is, something inside that does not let the star – up turn, I hope you can help me
Sorry for the translation
Thanks
Just wondering what is going on if the starter stud is loose and rotates when you try and loosen the nut.
Can it be re-tightened, or does that indicate something behind is broken?
My starter still works, but intermittently sticks and turns over very slowly like the battery is flat. Then it seems to come good and start fine again. Thanks for your help, Mike